"Sir! It's above my pay grade, Sir!"

[m42]

Last weekend Mega-Pastor Rick Warren hosted a televised political forum at Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California. During the event, both Barack Obama and John McCain were separately but pointedly asked: "At what point does a baby get human rights?"

Obama proceeded to grace his fellow Americans with what has to be one of the weakest answers of his campaign to date: “…whether you’re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity… is above my pay grade.”

McCain, being a staunch pro-lifer for the past twenty years was posed with the same question to which he quickly and resolutely answered: "At the moment of conception."

Here's the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBiCwLwsEfw&e

With both Obama and McCain vying for the "faith" vote, abortion has been a very hot topic as of late. Whether pro-life or pro-choice preparedness is crucial to landing the support of the multitudes of evangelical voters. That clearly includes the ability to articulate your stance without the use of a teleprompter or a prewritten speech.

So, how does a markedly pro-choice candidate articulate his stance on abortion in front of millions of pro-life viewers? ;)

[John Scott]

So, how does a markedly pro-choice candidate articulate his stance on abortion in front of millions of pro-life viewers?

Honesty? He could have just said, "Never". It would have turned off a lot of people, but it would have been honest.

With both Obama and McCain vying for the "faith" vote, abortion has been a very hot topic as of late.

I still don't see how abortion is a "faith" or religious issue any more than straight up homicide is.

[m42]

I still don't see how abortion is a "faith" or religious issue any more than straight up homicide is.

Be it homicide, abortion, or on the battlefield.... Be you Christian, Muslim, Jainest, or Jew:

Thou shalt not kill.

Of course, most organized religion is riddled with contradiction. Fundamentally, it's just a matter of in group/out group ethics.

Babies simply appear to be the out group.

[kerrin]

Fundamentally, it's just a matter of in group/out group ethics.
Babies simply appear to be the out group.
Agree. Currently this seems to be how abortion is treated ethicaly.

But if 'we' the indivisualists agree to the "individualistic social contract" shouldn't the debate be framed around questions like:

Is the unborn an individual?
What constitutes an individual?
If in process of becoming an individual at what point does the government protect the life, liberty, and personal possesions for that individual?