View Full Version : Should corporal punishment be banned in schools?
Saying corporal punishment disproportionately targets minority students and creates a "violent and degrading school environment," two groups want federal and state lawmakers to ban it.
In a report being issued today, Human Rights Watch and the American Civil Liberties Union cite U.S. Education Department statistics that find school personnel in the 2006-07 school year reported disciplining 223,190 students by hitting, spanking or similar means. In interviews, Alice Farmer, the report's author, found that children in Texas and Mississippi are routinely paddled for "minor infractions" such as chewing gum or violating school dress codes.
"It's just fundamentally ineffective in terms of improving school discipline," she says. "It doesn't teach kids why what they did was wrong; it doesn't show them better behavior. What it does is teach them to be violent."
David Sanders of the Twiggs County, Ga., school board, which voted last month to reaffirm a policy allowing spanking, calls that "simplistic." Many in his community support the practice, he says: After a story ran in the local paper, readers submitted dozens of comments, "and they were 95% positive."
The Education Department says 17% of students nationwide are black, but they made up 35.6% of students paddled in 2006-07. In Texas, 10.7% of students are disabled, but they made up 17.4% of paddled students.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2008-08-19-corporal-punishment_N.htm
John Scott
08-25-2008, 04:55 AM
Yes, it should be banned. And not for the reasons stated, but because it isn't the school's job to discipline children. I think it's extremely traumatic for a child to be spanked by some non-family member.
Yes, it should be banned. And not for the reasons stated, but because it isn't the school's job to discipline children. I think it's extremely traumatic for a child to be spanked by some non-family member.
The state has no business in making and policing those decisions. I believe a parent should be presented with the option of permitting the school officials to discipline their children --within reason. Especially in boarding schools where the school may take on the role of both educator and surrogate-parent.
mikey.
09-02-2008, 03:27 AM
The state has no business in making and policing those decisions. I believe a parent should be presented with the option of permitting the school officials to discipline their children --within reason. Especially in boarding schools where the school may take on the role of both educator and surrogate-parent.
Within reason? Slapping? Spanking? Pinching? Mouthing off a student?
Why not hand your kid over to a dominatrix with some sort of degree?
If you think your kid is that out of hand and should be physically abused then you should find them a counselor not to mention get counseling of your own.
I see something VERY wrong with a 45 year old male teacher spanking a 16 year old girl who wasn't listening in class. If you think that's fine, then wow.
mikey.
09-02-2008, 03:33 AM
Another thing, I don’t believe that corporal punishment either at school or at home works in changing a kids behavior behavior. All it does is instill fear. It's not boot camp for it to do anything discipline wise.
mikey.
09-02-2008, 03:51 PM
No M, I don't. I was however raised in England for the better half of my life, educated in Private Schools (3 in total - 2 of which were boarding schools) up until I was around 17. One of them, a well known private school in England, enforced such methods, never was I smacked, sure I was yelled at a lot, but watching what other kids had to go through for being naturally energetic, happy and giggly, and at times over excited sickened me and many others. See, what this does to teachers who have a right to use such actions, is fuel them with anger towards regular student offenders (if i can say that) and as time goes on these methods get a little more violent, to the point where it's not punishment but pure violence being invoke upon these students.
The last school I attended back in the UK, private also, was one I believe I got the best education out of. I was not afraid to ask 'silly' questions I did not get, nor was I afraid to 'question' a teacher in hopes of developing my personality and better understand certain topics, both things that at times infuriate teachers and force those with the power to punish, to do just that.
At home, as spoiled as I was, I was never physically punished (might have been as a little kid, we all got spanked from time to time) but I don't remember anything of the sort over the age of 13. My parents were well educated and knew very well how to work things out with me as most parents should be. Which brings me to wonder whether it's students we should control and punish for their actions, or rather their parents methods discipline methods and such. This school obviously did not condone corporal punishment.
After moving here, my education remained a pleasant one without any problems. Point being, yeah, I don't agree with you, at all, for the points I stated above.
So M, you got kids of your own? You ok with them spanking you little boy/girl for chewing gum in class or arguing with a teacher? blame it on their outspoken personality yeah? saves you time having to discipline them and explain this and that to them at home? heh...I don't know, i'd like to know if you would let your kids go through that? if you really think students benefit in ANY way from that experience? do you think it should be enforced because it makes a parents life at raising their child easier?
I don't agree with you, at all, for the points I stated above.
So M, you got kids of your own? You ok with them spanking you little boy/girl for chewing gum in class or arguing with a teacher? blame it on their outspoken personality yeah? saves you time having to discipline them and explain this and that to them at home? heh...I don't know, i'd like to know if you would let your kids go through that? if you really think students benefit in ANY way from that experience? do you think it should be enforced because it makes a parents life at raising their child easier?
I'm not asking you to agree with me. I'm asking you to voice your own opinions.
I do not have kids. I won't pretend I know how to raise them.
I base my response purely upon personal experience. My parents were strict and did discipline us.
I also attended private school. If I was out of line, I was smacked like everyone else. While attending private school, I was always disciplined by a female and never without good reason.
I've no doubt that the discipline did a bit of good. ;) I was hell on little feet.
Where in the UK?
mikey.
09-02-2008, 07:32 PM
Lived in Newark in Notty, C.London and E.of London by Kent during the years I was there. Fam lived in london though, overlooking oxford street too, central oxford street to the left ;) bird Lane, drop by some time while im there! Drinks are on me ;) johns invited too no doubt
I know you're not asking me to agree there M, just stating that I simply don't agree with you anyway, and then i went ahead and voiced my opinion.
and lmao!! If you enjoyed the spanking, that's your deal I dunno :P a lady spanking me would have been Ok i suppose, but guys were mostly assigned guys, which was super gay I think
:D
mikey.
09-02-2008, 07:35 PM
Ok i kid about accepting it if a woman was spanking me back then! ha! It's all wrong to be honest. Sure my parents were too busy or usually out of the country but they made time for what was important and I guess i appreciated them sending me to top notch schools and that. meh so yeah not too much of a trouble maker.
Teaching anyone anything by force, never works out well, people don't get that i guess.
Nice areas. My father attended The King's School in Canterbury.
So by allowing the government to ban corporal punishment, have you considered that you are effectively allowing the government to tell parents how to raise their kids? Are you willing to deal with the repercussions of such a decision?
mikey.
09-03-2008, 10:23 AM
Come on girlie... :)
Are you seriously telling me that by banning corporal punishment, the goverment will then have a hand in how parents raise their child? I don't get how that's possible.
I certainly consider it a possibility.
mikey.
09-03-2008, 02:55 PM
Ok, then How?????
Through a combination of arrogance and good intent.
The same way the City Council members decided they were justified in blocking the opening of all new fast food restaurants in the slums of LA in an attempt to combat obesity.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/politics/cal/la-me-fastfood30-2008jul30,0,7844906.story
The same way Social Services was able to confiscate the children of a hospitalized British tourist and subject her children to unnecessary humiliation and abuse.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23433964-details/British+girls+on+holiday+in+New+York+put+in+orphan age+after+mother+falls+ill/article.do
The same way British officials are now warning that they will remove obese children from the care of their parents under the pretense that obesity is always a direct result of parental neglect. Heaven forbid the children actually grow up psychologically scarred AND obese.
http://current.com/items/89211646_fat_kids_to_be_removed_from_parental_negl ect
The governments are slowly gaining more and more control over the personal habits of the people.
So yes, I believe it's entirely possible.
eternaltraveler
09-03-2008, 03:36 PM
The same way British officials are now warning that they will remove Obese children from the care of their parents. Heaven forbid the children actually grow up psychologically scarred AND obese.
Are there circumstances where it is ok to take children away from their parents?
As to my understanding the situation referenced in the article you cited would require the children to be not just fat, but grossly overweight in a life threatening manner.
Are there circumstances where it is ok to take children away from their parents?
Yes, but drawing that line is obviously quite difficult.
As to my understanding the situation referenced in the article you cited would require the children to be not just fat, but grossly overweight in a life threatening manner.
Still no excuse. Offer to help the parent. Don't take the kids. Period.
eternaltraveler
09-03-2008, 03:59 PM
Yes, but drawing that line is obviously quite difficult.
Still no excuse. Offer to help the parent. Don't take the kids. Period.
I would like to hear some examples of when it is ok to take children from their parents, and why do those forms of child abuse hold more sway than abusing and perhaps killing your child by feeding them buckets of crisco.
mikey.
09-03-2008, 04:00 PM
sticking with my views here and will bow out now :)
But, sure, I'll sway with you, it is possible, in a far fetched way, but id take that any day as aposed to letting a child of mine be touched or harmed in any way. I know very well ill rasie my child to the best of my ability so anything the gov. puts into effect later inthe future, wont effect me.
I would like to hear some examples of when it is ok to take children from their parents, and why do those forms of child abuse hold more sway than abusing and perhaps killing your child by feeding them buckets of crisco.
When one can prove that the parent is actively killing or severely abusing the child.
For example, here's just one case where I feel it is not OK to remove a child:
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/authorities-may-take-218-pound-8-year-old-away-from-his-mother.html
The mother obviously cares about the child. The child steals food and the mother is apparently at her wits end.
The child is in danger of dying by age 30? What happens when he leaves home at 18? Is Social Services going to lock him up so he doesn't steal food and overeat?
Tell me which circumstances justify the imprisonment and control of someone else's children?
mikey.
09-03-2008, 04:12 PM
woah, 8yr old kid weaighs more than I do. prob does now anyway, im at 240 6'4 and kb'd for 12 years
kid def needs help and if his mom can't do something about it, then yes, she needs to either do something about, by seeking help, or let someone else make sure her child lives a healthier life m. you don't see it that way?
woah, 8yr old kid weaighs more than I do. prob does now anyway, im at 240 6'4 and kb'd for 12 years
kid def needs help and if his mom can't do something about it, then yes, she needs to either do something about, by seeking help, or let someone else make sure her child lives a healthier life m. you don't see it that way?
I agree, the kid needs help. That help should not be in the form of the state taking the child.
eternaltraveler
09-03-2008, 04:22 PM
The child steals food and the mother is apparently at her wits end.
The child is 8. Control him. There is no excuse.
Tell me which circumstances justify the imprisonment and control of someone else's children?
No idea. Humans have evolved so that children can be very endearing toward all of us. Therefore when we learn of one being hurt we want to help, as do I. Many of us holding the strictest libertarian philosophies will even suspend them in regards to children. However looking at the situation from the perspective of cold evolution, when parents are so utterly ill equiped to care of their children such that the children die at an early age in this time prosperity, the parents also do evolution a favor of not passing on their genes to the next generation.
The child is 8. Control him. There is no excuse.
It's so easy to talk when you don't have kids.
eternaltraveler
09-03-2008, 04:31 PM
It's so easy to talk when you don't have kids.
legitimate ones
do I really need to go get someone that has kids to come on here and say allowing a 8 year old to eat so much they tip the scales at 30 pounds more than me at 6' is just ridiculous?
legitimate ones
That response would only work if I didn't know you in real life. :p
@mikey: The percentage of parents who believe spanking is an effective form of punishing seems fairly significant:
http://www.sptimes.com/2008/02/06/Hillsborough/Parents_waver_over_wi.shtml
Are you going to tell them they can't spank their kids?
eternaltraveler
09-03-2008, 04:37 PM
That response would only work if I didn't know you in real life
How do you know what I've been up to in bizarre corners of the world? ;)
eternaltraveler
09-03-2008, 04:39 PM
re: the original topic of this thread
I have no problem with corporal punishment being allowed in private schools, but not in public schools. In that case you are defacto taking the choice away from parents to not allow it to be done to their kids. Public schools are already a state institution.
How do you know what I've been up to in bizarre corners of the world? ;)
No comment.
mikey.
09-03-2008, 04:55 PM
@mikey: The percentage of parents who believe spanking is an effective form of punishing seems fairly significant:
http://www.sptimes.com/2008/02/06/Hillsborough/Parents_waver_over_wi.shtml
Are you going to tell them they can't spank their kids?
they can do whatever the hell they want to do in all honesty, I was mainly against schools doing so. If they want to instill fear in their child, and if they don't have the patience or common sense to raise them right, not my problem.
Corporal punishment in schools may one day effect my own child, which id simple not let be. Just me I guess. You're all free to give your kid to some over grown baboon who hits kids for a living, because that's what it is when you think about it, all the more power to you. heh.
they can do whatever the hell they want to do in all honesty, I was mainly against schools doing so. If they want to instill fear in their child, and if they don't have the patience or common sense to raise them right, not my problem.
Corporal punishment in schools may one day effect my own child, which id simple not let be. Just me I guess. You're all free to give your kid to some over grown baboon who hits kids for a living, because that's what it is when you think about it, all the more power to you. heh.
The point being, if they can vote to ban it, they can also vote to impose it.
The government should have no say in banning or allowing corporal punishment.
mikey.
09-03-2008, 08:59 PM
Ok, I somewhat agree there. But I still think it should be banned, could care less who bans it, schools should not allow it, parents for the most part should not tolerate that sort of thing. gah!
M, when/if you ever have a child, would you let someone else lay a finger on them? other than say you or his/her father? would you be ok sitting at home knowing some one, god knows who was spanking them? slapping them? pinching them? yelling at them and what not? You don't have kids, but i'm sure you can relate being a woman, men can even relate...so?
M, when/if you ever have a child, would you let someone else lay a finger on them? other than say you or his/her father? would you be ok sitting at home knowing some one, god knows who was spanking them? slapping them? pinching them? yelling at them and what not? You don't have kids, but i'm sure you can relate being a woman, men can even relate...so?
I honestly don't know the answer to that.
I doubt I'd allow just anyone to discipline my kid.
mikey.
09-04-2008, 08:57 AM
Fair enough there m :)
Cricket
09-10-2008, 04:44 PM
I will not even consider allowing a school to spank my child, and I take action to make sure it is never an issue. I choose not to spank my child, but if I chose to, it would be out of love. The school cannot make that same claim.
There isn't much more I can say on this.
I'm not a parent, so it likely will never apply to me. I'll leave this thread to those it impacts most.
firetown
09-10-2008, 10:07 PM
Where I grew up, teachers hit kids sometimes and I believe it's unacceptable to give a teacher the right to do that. It won't do anything beneficial. The kids will hate authority as I've done most of my life.
To this day I cannot hit my own kid, even when she pisses me off to the max.
I take that back. Once I hit her on the hand and for 2 minutes she starred at me and cried uncontrollably, so I promised her I will never do it again.
Of course, she took full advantage of knowing that, but there are a lot smarter ways to discipline IMO.
Time out seems to work really well.