Hamas v Israel

[John Scott]

Who is at fault?

[kerrin]

Both........

[m42]

I'd have to say Hamas on this one.

The truce expires.
Seemingly unprovoked, Hamas immediately begins shelling Israel.
Israel retaliates.
Hamas leaders go into hiding while their people die en masse?

Hm....

It would be a stretch to say Israel is at fault because they allowed the truce to expire.

Hamas obviously doesn't give a damn about its people.

[John A Roark]

The Islamic militant mentality has always been at fault.
1948.
1956.
1967.
1973.
Don't these people ever learn?
Swear to obliterate Israel and thou shalt be obliterated in thy turn.
My only hope is that they DO NOT bow to political pressure this time--I hope they press right on to the ruination of Hamas as a viable political entity, no matter the cost.
If Palestinian civilians die, so be it.

[John Scott]

I think they are both at fault, to differing degrees. Israel certainly could do a better job winning over the Palestinians. But the majority of fault would definitely be with Hamas. They don't want peace, and it doesn't like peace is going to be forced on them against their will.

[John A Roark]

The only way Israel is at fault is the same way every other nation in the world is at fault--they conquered their neighbors.
We did it to the indigenous tribes here.
The Normans did it to the Saxons.
The Vikings did it to the French.
The Dutch did it to the Hottentots.
The Spanish did it to the Incas.
And so on.
And so forth.
And such like.
The Palestinians are using world opinion, just like they would any other weapon, to try and reverse the conquest. That's their prerogative.

Islam is such a destructive, tyrannical ideology that its ascendency would signal doom for civilization as we know it. If Israel fails, Islam wins, and the region is up in smoke. Therefore, Go Israel!

[kerrin]

The Zionist use propaganda to garner world opinion as well.

It's Macbeth meets Herod the Great meets Saddam Hussein meets Jim Jones meets Constantine meets Pol Pot, all of whom meet at the Hotel Rwanda where they go after money, sex, and power.... As an individualist these things are fine when not sought at the expense of someone else. Both sides are to blame; they both seek power and possession of land at the expense of the other.

[John Scott]

The Zionist use propaganda to garner world opinion as well.

It's Macbeth meets Herod the Great meets Saddam Hussein meets Jim Jones meets Constantine meets Pol Pot, all of whom meet at the Hotel Rwanda where they go after money, sex, and power.... As individualist these things are fine when not sought at the expense of someone else. Both sides are to blame; they both seek power and possession of land at the expense of the other.


Very well stated.

[John A Roark]

May the best...culture win.
I know who I'm pulling for.

[Tom Palven]

There was an article in Times-Union, Jacksonville, FL, Sept 21, by Associated Press journalist Amy Teible, titled Obama to talk to Mideast leaders.

The article discusses upcoming Israeli-Palestinian talks, and states "The Islamic militant Hamas group that overran Gaza in 2007 is not a party to the negotiation process." (emphasis mine)

In fact, Hamas won convincing election victories in both Gaza and the West Bank in elections that were supposed to be a victory for the democratic process according to Condoleezza Rice and George Bush, but after the surprising election results, Hamas winners were prevented from taking power in the West Bank by what amounted to a US-Israeli coup, and had to force their way into offices in Gaza. As Wikipedia puts it:

In January 2006, Hamas was successful in the Palestinian parliamentary elections, taking 76 of the 132 seats in the chamber, while the previous ruling Fatah party took 43.[8] After Hamas's election victory, violent and non-violent infighting arose between Hamas and Fatah.[9][10] Following the Battle of Gaza in June 2007, elected Hamas officials were ousted from their positions in the Palestinian National Authority government in the West Bank and replaced by rival Fatah members and independents. Hamas retained control of Gaza.[11][12]

Although I have become convinced over the past several years that the Palestinians have been treated like the Cherokees since the 1940's, my major complaint is that the Associated Press is becoming like Pravda.

[John A Roark]

Please study the whole history of the Mandate question from the mid-1890's up thru 1948 before you tell us how bad the Palestinians have it.

[Tom Palven]

The last paragraph of mine is an opinion, but do you dispute the facts that I outlined in the preceding paragraphs?